** I wrote this article last year on another site, but given recent events I wanted to repost it on my site. I’ll talk about it more in a future entry **
I came across this article the other day, and found it particularly distressing given the prevalence of online social websites such as Facebook and MySpace these days:
Megan Meier thought she had made a new friend in cyberspace when a cute teenage boy named Josh contacted her on MySpace and began exchanging messages with her.
Megan, a 13-year-old who suffered from depression and attention deficit disorder, corresponded with Josh for more than a month before he abruptly ended their friendship, telling her he had heard she was cruel.
The next day Megan committed suicide. Her family learned later that Josh never actually existed; he was created by members of a neighborhood family that included a former friend of Megan’s.
What’s exceedingly cruel is that the fake account was created not just by a girl at Megan’s school, but was also created in conjunction with that girl’s mother. The reason for creating it, according to that mother was because “she wanted to gain Megan’s confidence to know what Megan was saying about her own child online.”
While still inexcusable, given my own experiences in elementary school, I can at least understand kids saying mean things to each other. But it’s hard for me to fathom how any parent could deliberately attack someone else’s child by repeatedly sending horrible messages to them:
Someone using Josh’s account was sending cruel messages. Then, Megan called her mother, saying electronic bulletins were being posted about her, saying things like, “Megan Meier is a slut. Megan Meier is fat.”
The final straw for Megan, according to her parents, was a message she received from Josh:
Her father said he found a message the next day from Josh, which he said law enforcement authorities have not been able to retrieve. It told the girl she was a bad person and the world would be better without her, he has said.
While I do not have any children of my own, I have a nine year old niece back home that means the world to me. She has spent her whole life surrounded by close friends and relatives who love her to pieces. She goes out of her way to help others, and smiles at everything she possibly can in this world. To think that in a few years she will probably be on a few of these social websites, potentially dealing with situations like this is an absolutely sickening thought that has lately been causing me a great deal of stress. I can’t even imagine what it must be like to be a parent, to be constantly trying to protect your child from harm, only to know that there’s a limit to the protection that they can ultimately provide.
Megan’s death was tragic, but was it unavoidable? Where does the responsibility ultimately lie for her protection? Her parents sound like they loved her, and tried to find a balance between protection and her being involved with social activities such as online communities. And yet this still this happened. Should these social websites take a more active role in protecting children?
How many emails a day are governments filtering, looking for keywords about terrorism and who knows what else? We balk at these measures because they invade our privacy, and are outside of our control. But surely on a website where membership is voluntary there should be allowances for filtering emails or whatever else can be done to protect these children from these types of cruelty. I mean seriously, shouldn’t emails containing the word “slut” in a 13 year old girl’s inbox trigger something or someone?
When the dust settles from what happened to Megan, I really hope that some of the social networks will step up and propose measures to limit this from happening. If I was a parent, I would definitely think twice about letting my kids anywhere near these websites today.
My son is only 17 months old.. I can only imagine how many new ways there will be to humiliate peers when he gets to his teenage years.. it’s terrifying. To spend these formative years building his self esteem, and socializing him with other children and situations, only to have another person, another parent no less, rip that away so casually, and without concern makes my heart break.
I read about that a couple days ago. It was sickening to see that a mother, of all people, thought that it was okay to send these kinds of taunting messages to a 13-year-old. For fuck’s sake, she is an adult!
Having been one at some point in my life, I can understand 13-year-old girls pulling something like this. In those dim, dark days before the internet, I wrote a letter like this (that was never delivered) to a girl in my class that was physically abusive to me in front of the teachers. But to watch a presumably grown woman do this just goes beyond the pale.
Considering that the messages were sent deliberately and with such malice, I hope that the mother is charged.
For the record, I don’t blame Megan’s parents in this one. It sounds as though they did all they could to monitor Megan’s behavior online. It sounds as though they were reasonably responsible, but 13 is an age at which a lot of girls become more guarded with their parents.
That’s awful…
Reminds me of when I was in High School (back in 1997, yeah those days…); there was this place online where you could hold polls for who was the hottest, the ugliest, the nerdiest, the biggest whore etc (thank god i never owned a computer until I was 18)…lots of uproar when a teacher stumbled upon the site during a routine history search of a school computer, and found the names of dozens of students and the polling results for the various things people were tagged as etc.
Although the internet is great for social networking and especially for people like myself who find it difficult to find people to communicate with in person on a normal basis, I do have to wonder where the line should be drawn…I have gotten some pretty horrible messages on myspace…not so much personal attacks as pornographic lures etc…in fact the worst that comes to mind would be the message I got from the guy whose profile picture was him whacking off in the bathtub…I just have to wonder if 13 is old enough for places such as myspace that are predominantly visited by people in their late high school years and beyond. I mean, perhaps there should be a site specifically designed for younger teens and ‘tweens…I understand it doesn’t change the fact that there is no such site at present, or even when Megan was networking, but it’s food for thought. I have a daughter, and when I think about her using the internet for social purposes when she’s old enough I’m really concerned… mainly because of the volume of derogatory messages I have received (because even being a woman on Yahoo playing Mahjong solitaire comes with troller creeps EVERY TIME), and due to the lack of regulation (which cannot possibly be adequately policed without infringing on our right to privacy). Also, I think younger teen girls who are in a severe depression are huge targets for internet predators (see Dateline NBC’s To Catch a Predator).
I think it is a parents responsibility to protect their children from online predators, of any form. First by monitering how much and who they talk to. And then as they get older, by teaching them to take the things they here people, who are ultimately strangers, with a grain of salt. To many people, not just children, don’t realize the danger of getting to involved with someone they have never actually met. It is so easy to be someone and say things that are not true when you are online. This girl was troubled and neede a friend, which unfortunately made her vulnerable to these predators, her parents should have encouraged her to seek out people in the flesh to become friends with. You should never have personal conversations with someone you haven’t actually met.
Given the rising rates of depression & mental illness among young people, it is indeed a significant issue. Thanks for writing this Duane, I didn’t catch the original news.
I was at the gym earlier today when this story was on CTV, I just about fell off the treadmill when I read that someone’s mother was actually involved. It’s appaling that teens do this to one another let alone have an adult condone and contribute to the whole affair. Some people really don’t have the sense god gave a beach rock. Does anyone know if there will be any legal ramifications for those involved?
Clearly that mother was not a mature adult, which is sadly something more and more common these days. Our society has lost so much in terms of accountability. Instead of being a mature adult and say, perhaps contacting the school in regards to the Meagan girl’s alleged behaviour toward her child, or the girl’s family directly, the fact the mother turned to using the internet as a means of ATTACKING the child, is a direct symptom of the downward spiral of society.
The whole thing is absolutely sickening. At 13 years old, still a baby within the vastness of this world, to commit suicide.
And to think of the obvious (or should it be oblivious) role the other girl’s mother played makes my blood boil.
The rest of her life she should live beneath a cloud of shame.
If only such a feeling had existed within her at the moment she decided to torment a child. Perhaps she would have actually thought of the consequences of her actions.
Thanks for the story Duane. Thirteen is such a tender age. My mother died when I was thirteen. I recall feeling completely lost and in total despair. I was treated very poorly by one girl in my class. She was a ringleader who made that year the most miserable for me. Luckily, I didn’t have the internet to deal with way back then. My heart aches for Megan’s family. Unforgivable what that other girl’s mother did. An adult no less! Makes me sick to my stomach. I have a two year old daughter and five year old son. I haven’t had to deal with the “internet thing” with them yet. This story is helpful to me, and scares the crap out of me. I must always pay close attention to what’s going on when they do begin to surf the net.
Cyber bullying is a growing problem. I would be interested in knowing if it has surpassed bullying in the classroom. Kids can and will be hurtful at times but what I don’t understand is how an Adult, the girls mother, would participate and promote such a thing. If anything she should know best and should have put a stop to it.
That has to constitute a crime. And if it doesn’t, a precedent should be set.
My daughter is 9 years old with ADHD and several learning disabilities. She’s been teased and assaulted and suffers from low self-esteem as a result of not being able to keep up with the ‘normal’ curriculum. I can only hope that she will internalize my efforts to instill confidence and self-worth.
Kids can be very cruel. The internet just gives bullies another outlet to be bullies. And for the adult to have a hand in this? I say the mother should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.
Exactly what I was thinking, Matt.
[quote comment=”33654″]That has to constitute a crime. And if it doesn’t, a precedent should be set.[/quote]
Exactly. Especially if anybody was aware of Megan’s mental health problems. Even if they weren’t, the premeditation in setting up a profile for the express purpose of tormenting one person is an extremely disturbing thing to see in a woman that can easily be presumed to be in her thirties.
It all comes down to the parents. This is a touchy subject, so as the parent of a little girl please consider this is merely my own opinion.
A 13 year old has no business on the internet. plain and simple… get her a bike, sign her up for sports, get her interested in extra curricular activities- even video games for crying out loud. There are too many twisted people in this world and a child that age does not have the mental capacity nor should they HAVE to … to deal with them.
[quote comment=”33656″] I say the mother should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.[/quote]
I strongly agree
I read about this last night….I was just beyond sad upon reading it. That mother should be so ashamed of herself.
Miranda, my daughter is 10 and has the same issues your daughter does. It’s hard for her socially at school. But at home and with family and friends, she is always told how wonderful and loved she is. Fortunately she also has a few close good friends who understand her.I tell ehr that the only opinion that truly matters is her own, she knows she is a kind, thoughtful girl. And luckily that is what she remembers when ignorant people try to give her a hard time. I can only hope that the support she gets from the people who love her, keeps her safe and happy. Also, she has a great support system within the adults at her school.I can’t control what other people are going to do or say to her, but I can teach her to be herslef and seek out people who truly appreciate her.
[quote comment=”33659″]A 13 year old has no business on the internet. plain and simple… [/quote]
I’d have to disagree. I think the internet could be a really useful learning tool for a 13 year old child. It’s all about responsible usage and supervision. My daughter goes on the internet, but only on sites where you can’t personally communicate (e.g. you have to choose from a list of pre-set answers and responses) like yahoo kid games. Just like parents shouldn’t give children free range of the television, the same is true for the internet.
I think adults should also have a talk with children about the dangers of the internet and how possible (and probable) it is that a person you talk to may be misrepresenting themselves.
[quote comment=”33661″]That mother should be so ashamed of herself.[/quote]
Any mother who would bring herself to be involved in something like this obviously has no shame.
[quote comment=”33659″]
A 13 year old has no business on the internet. plain and simple…[/quote]
If you try to block out all the bad things from your kids they will eventually be exposed to it and won’t know how to react to it.
Kids need to be informed of the dangers that are out there and things to do to protect themselves. Parents need to talk to their kids about these kinds of things.
I’ve seen how completely devastating a few cruel words can be to a person, and it’s disgusting that a grown woman would do something so stupid and immature to someone’s daughter. The fact that she is a mother makes me furious. I know a few parents like that, who act their kids age and they need to grow the fuck up and learn how to be parents. I hope this woman gets charged with something.
When I was 14 a boy in my math class told me I was stupid and I should jump out the window because the world would be better off without me. It really hit me hard at that time, but luckily I didn’t do anything that serious. I really wish people would think about how their actions could affect someone, even if they think it’s just a joke.
Ihad seen a piece about this on CNN I think it was last night and I’m saddened by it, I just can’t understand what’s happened with children these days. I thought high school for me was horrible but the kids these days their cruelty and the physical and worst of all mental torment has just escalated to a point where it’s pushing kids to the breaking point. And I can’t believe that these are kids we’re talking about in the same sentences as torment, suicide and mental anguish… where did it all go so horribly wrong?
I know that there is always teasing in school but this is so much more than that, this isn’t picking on someone for wearing glasses or because their ears stuck out, this is abusing someone so much and causing them to the point of where suicide becomes an answer for them.
I worry for these kids today, they’ve become so hateful and their supposed to be our future. I worry that when these kids get even older the verbal abuse is going to become physical, beyond what some have already done. The kids are so desensitized to violence and have no conscience it seems, no real understanding of what’s wrong and what’s right and no comprehension of consequence that it scares me to think of what else could possibly happen.
A thirteen year old girl committed suicide and it’s so sad but it’s not shocking and really it *should* be shocking, we should all be completely in shock about it but are we really? Maybe initially but I think most of us, the ones who were never popular, who were the outsiders are not shocked but rather I think we hear her story and we understand it, we sympathize with her because we remember the hurtful things that were done to ourselves. How many people will say, if you’re honest with yourself, that they’ve been pushed to that point but just never followed through on it?
I think what we can learn from this and from our own experiences is that there are a lot of kids out there that are thinking their only answer is the same one that she chose. I know most of us would rather forget high school ever happened but if just sharing our thoughts and our experiences and how we felt at that time can help someone younger understand that they’re not the only one who feel what they’re feeling and that there is in fact life after high school it’s a start and it’s something that everyone can do. If we all got together and put together what we’ve learned from our past and put it out there for others to know and to relate to instead of keeping it to ourselves we could really help. Sometimes the best thing to hear from someone else is “I understand”.
I worked with kids for years and years, and the reality is, they will always find a way to be cruel to one another, just like adults.
That’s why the job of protecting them from one another becomes such a huge task, because you want to find a way to right the wrongs without condemning the wrongdoer to a life where they do no better, and are forever classified as a bully. It’s a recipe for disaster, letting them believe they’re evil and cannot change.
This story would be just as tragic if it had been kids working against kids.
But a mother. A mother. I don’t really see how this is any different than any other internet predator, sexual or otherwise. And not only did she victimize this little girl, but she encouraged her daughter to do the same. That’s two sets of charges, to me. And someone in need of both punishment and serious psychological care.
[quote comment=”33654″]That has to constitute a crime. And if it doesn’t, a precedent should be set.[/quote]
It seems to me that the actions taken essentially constitute fraud in a broad sense. Perhaps misrepresenting oneself, in this case as a teenage boy, as a way to elicit information of any kind, even as a way to spy on your own daughter, should have some legal consequences.
Unfortunately the person who mattered the most here is no longer breathing or able to see justice done. What a pathetic world we still live in. I am truly heart broken and crushed by this story. I had been battled against for much of my childhood years and I know the pain and reading this story just digs it all back up again. It is devaststing when all you want to do is just be loved and belong. I am so sorry this little girl had to be subjected to this act of cruelty. Sickens me inside.
I’ve been sitting here for a few minutes trying to gather my thoughts on this. And nothing will settle down properly for me to write anything down concisely.
I was bullied as a youth. It still affects me, torments me really, over ten years later. The thought that one of my (theoretical) children would have to live through anything like what I experienced horrifies me. The thought that they may not survive it turns my blood to ice.
I haven’t read all the response from everyone yet but will abit later.. But wanted to say that I have a 15 year old niece who goes on Nexopia.. there is no way in hell my son will join nex… When I hear parents saying ‘oh, well the world is so much different now, you can’t control that ‘- BULLSHIT I say… My mom never let me do SHIT..
I wish I could remember this guy who was on The View the other day but he was talking about how parents need to take back the control and stop letting their kids wear the clothes they are wearing and join the sites they are joining and talk the way they are talking. Why are we letting this happen? Why is my niece still on nexopia when we all know what goes on on that site? (probably alot of predators on this site).
On the flip side of her going onto Nexopia and fighting with her friends all the time, a few summers ago she was at my townhouse complex alot helping me out while I was a beached whale ready to give birth… She met a girl at our complex pool who lived here, who she exchanged msn addresses with.. later on they were talking on msn and I told my niece to ask the girl if she wants to come over and play playstation with her…. the girl started saying ‘i hate you’ and said alot of other horrible things… all the while, the girl lived right across the street from me and I knew this was going on because I was watching the convo unfold…. I always wonder if I should have gone over there and told the parents what the girl was doing….. she had friends over that were hijacking her msn was my guess, because why would this girl who we thought was so nice and knowing we’d see her the next day at the pool?
My niece is very introverted and was visibly hurt by what happened and I did nothing.. I always regret that I didn’t say anything to the parents (the mother I have never spoken with, father I have talked to once). I guess I was planning to if it happened again… but what if 1 more time was enough for my niece to do something horribly bad to herself? All because someone said ‘i hate you’…. those are very strong words from someone who you just met and it’s very disturbing.. I was disgusted to see that happening before my eyes….
I have a near 14 yr old girl….it is a very ugly world in the world of middle school drama I can assure you…
I keep a close eye on what she does online…and a lot of it is sickening…truly.
At work one day a kid came in to the lobby and spit on the floor before coming up to the window and requesting change for a 20 dollar bill…I looked at him and said “Did you just spit on my floor?”
“Yeah” (like it was an everyday thing)
I asked if he spit on his mom’s kitchen floor at home…he said no…
I told him to go ask her for change then b/c I wasn’t feeling compelled to help him out.
No apology…he just walked away.
the *games* played online by kids and adults is ridiculous and clearly the consequences are NOT worth it…
I say … Boo!
My girlfriend and I just brought this up today! The whole situation is beyond gut-wrenching. Just to clear up a couple points:
– The girl had asked her parents for a Myspace for her birthday, and they allowed her to have one. Her mother helped her to set it up, and kept an eye on her activities. (Though, sadly, not close enough.) That tells me her parents were the responsible type and hold zero blame for her death. I’m sure THEY don’t feel that way, though.
– This wasn’t manslaughter. However, there are new “internet harassment” laws that will surely come into play. Legal recourses are unclear at this point. For example, in real life there are laws against harassment, but (to my knowledge) not against “harassment causing death.” Even less where the internet is concerned.
I agree with Matt, though. If these laws don’t exist, they should immediately be created. What that other “mother” has done is absolutely sickening and I have no pity for her even if the guilt chokes her for the rest of her life. It’s less than she deserves.
[quote comment=”33684″]Unfortunately the person who mattered the most here is no longer breathing or able to see justice done. [/quote]
That’s very true. It’s obviously really sad what they did to Megan, ever more so that she took her life because of it. I’ll actually do a post about suicide at some point, because I have been exposed to it several times in my life — a close friend’s sister took her life a few years ago, and my last girlfriend hovered near the edge for several months. Years ago I spent a summer up in the Yukon Territory (which has one of the highest suicide rates in Canada) helping a friend of mine who taught suicide prevention.
For some reason, people in our society tend to look down upon on those who are chronically depressed or exhibit suicidal tendencies. But suicide is simply the end result when the pain a person experiences exceeds their ability to cope with it.
In case you didn’t know… this is what is going on in this world.
Some days I don’t want to get out of bed.
“Should these social websites take a more active role in protecting children?”
Most social networking sites have measures in place for users to report abusive or harassing behavior so it can be dealt with, or to block users from contacting you, but it is up to the individual user to make those reports and use those features. With all the traffic that sites like Myspace, Facebook, Nexopia etc etc recieve, as well as all the different features they each have (ie private messages, message boards et al), it’s damn near impossible for the admin teams, which are usually limited, to keep tabs on what the users are doing.
Personally, I think in the end it really is up to the parents to monitor their childrens online activities, and make it absolutely clear to the children that if they are encountering abusive and harassing behavior, to tell them so they can report it to the websites admin teams to be dealt with, or, in a case such as this, to the police.
[quote comment=”33696″]With all the traffic that sites like Myspace, Facebook, Nexopia etc etc recieve, as well as all the different features they each have (ie private messages, message boards et al), it’s damn near impossible for the admin teams, which are usually limited, to keep tabs on what the users are doing.[/quote]
I’m not sure I agree with that. First, not all the monitoring has to be done by real people. It would be fairly straight forward to do computerized monitoring using keywords of all emails and private messages. Tie it to a certain age group if you want, but that’s basically an easy feature compared to some of the technology behind those sites. Make it so these kids need an adult sponsor on the site, one that’s automatically contacted if a flag comes up.
And second, there are only limited admins for things like this because the business models are created without taking things like this into account. Most of these sites make their money from advertising — if you’re a parent, would you rather endorse (and allow your kid to join) MySpace A, which has no features designed to protect your child, or MySpace B, which has extra features to protect them? Based on that question, which site do you think is going to get more advertising revenue then, and hence have more money to spend on things like extra admins?
[quote comment=”33646″]Given the rising rates of depression & mental illness among young people, it is indeed a significant issue. Thanks for writing this Duane, I didn’t catch the original news.[/quote]
does anybody know why this is? maybe its related to all that teflon they found in pretty much everybody…maybe not…but there has to be some sort of explanation, dark or not, as to why this is
I only skimmed over the comments, so I’m not sure if anyone has said anything regarding this; Before anyone says it’s the internet’s fault or Facebook or Myspace’s fault, (not saying anyone necessarily has yet), I would like to point out that though I am sure there are many cases such as this of social exclusion or even bullying in those communities, the number of “social outcasts” or “uncool” people in elementary/high school who have managed to find friendship and acceptance via other means through these pages should not be overlooked.
Other than that, what can any of us say that the rest of us aren’t already thinking.
“Moe. – Another One Gone”
http://www.dst3design.com/movies/H264_300K.mov
I was a couselor in a summer camp that accepted kids with ADD and ADHD. I was taking care of a group of ten 12 years old and one of my girls had ADD. This is back in 1997 when I was 18 and the only thing I was told to do, was to keep a good eye on her. I did my best but she was immediately singled out as the “weird” one. They accused her of stealing and the rest of the girls did’nt like her. I was all about having fun and today I regret not taking care of her better. I had no idea how to deal with her. I was always nice with her and she liked me but I did nothing to make the other girls be nicer to her. I just let time pass. One night I woke up around 2 am to discover she was’nt in her bed. I went to the bathroom and found her cleaning the floor with the squeegee… I asked her why she was doing this and she told me she could’nt sleep. I did’nt make a big deal out of it, I just tought to myself “well, she has ADD so it’s normal” and brought her back to bed. I think back today and wish I could go back in time and do my very best to make her have the time of her life, a summer to remember just like the summer all the other campers had. I also wish I would have been trained in advance, or at least be told what ADD really is besides “they always seek attention” ….yeah right. That little girl was very quiet and shy.
About the horrors we see happening on the internet now, I thank god in my time there was no such thing. Computers were only used in the most boring classes and those who wanted to pass a message along went to the bathroom during class with a black marker in their pocket….
[quote comment=”33663″][quote comment=”33659″]A 13 year old has no business on the internet. plain and simple… [/quote]
I’d have to disagree. I think the internet could be a really useful learning tool for a 13 year old child. It’s all about responsible usage and supervision. My daughter goes on the internet, but only on sites where you can’t personally communicate (e.g. you have to choose from a list of pre-set answers and responses) like yahoo kid games. Just like parents shouldn’t give children free range of the television, the same is true for the internet.
I think adults should also have a talk with children about the dangers of the internet and how possible (and probable) it is that a person you talk to may be misrepresenting themselves.[/quote]
That’s a good point, websites that are used for studying, projects and learning are the exception. Honestly though why does a 13 year old need myspace? What purpose does it serve.
This really has nothing to do with whether or not a child is shielded from the evils of the world and not being able to react to it when they are older either. I agree with allowing your child to grow and learn, but there are certain things a child that young shouldn’t have to deal with. There are things a 13 year old shouldn’t have to know about- that’s too young.
I will add that at age 7 I was diagnosed with ADHD and at age 8 depression as well. I went through many rough roads since then, including isolation from my core group of peers when I was put into a Section 27 classroom. It’s what they called the special needs classrooms, though these classes can also include autistic children and other disabilities, so in no way was everyone in it getting what they needed. Autism and ADHD are worlds apart and the fact that we all just got lumped together is a sign of the school system’s inability to account for everyone who has special needs. Mostly due to lack of funding, I assume. I spent my last 2 and a half years in public school in this class, learning nothing of those Grade’s curriculum (still managed a 75 average in high school with all academic courses, too). I was treated as an outcast by some, though it wasn’t like I was teased by them, we just sort of broke off contact as the years passed. Kids always have trouble dealing with things that are different. I understand why we stopped hanging out as I was in that class and I don’t fault those kids for initiating it.
However, this is different. She was not teased, rather a premeditated act of cruelty was thrust upon her. Someone built this troubled girl up, only to brutally pull the rug out from under her, and on top of that an ADULT was involved behind the scenes.
I tend to be pretty pessimistic and misanthropic, but I generally push those concepts to the back of my mind so as to be able to live without being in constant doubt about the quality of humanity. Every once in a while though, something comes along which pushes all those thoughts right back to the front of my mind.
This is clearly one of those times.
[quote comment=”33693″][quote comment=”33684″]Unfortunately the person who mattered the most here is no longer breathing or able to see justice done. [/quote]
That’s very true. It’s obviously really sad what they did to Megan, ever more so that she took her life because of it.
I’ll actually do a post about suicide at some point, because I have been exposed to it several times in my life — a close friend’s sister took her life a few years ago, and my last girlfriend hovered near the edge for several months.
Years ago I spent a summer up in the Yukon Territory (which has one of the highest suicide rates in Canada) helping a friend of mine who taught suicide prevention.
For some reason, people in our society tend to look down upon on those who are chronically depressed or exhibit suicidal tendencies. But suicide is simply the end result when the pain a person experiences exceeds their ability to cope with it.[/quote]
Duane I can’t wait to hear what you come up with regarding a story on suicide. Such a sad state to have to be in. I recently found out that a boy I used to babysit back in my highschool days took his life last April. I am stuck sitting here wondering still when do you reach a point where you feel you have no way out? I have always had suicide in my mind but there is a part of me that is so terrified of death that I think that is the only reason I am still here. Deep subject for me but it is important for people to talk about it. I also agree that people do look down on you for having mental illness. As someone with a mental illness, I can relate so well. People just don’t understand or want to be ignorant to it because it doesn’t affect them on a personal level. I would give my life for theirs in a heartbeat. This story has touched me deeply and I hope we can get more info out there to people because we all need to be aware of this sad reality. I came across a great quote the other day. It said “It is so easy to die, the hardest part is to live. How true. Thanx Duane
@ Witchy Woman : “I can relate so well. People just don’t understand or want to be ignorant to it because it doesn’t affect them on a personal level.”
I think it’s terrible that you feel that way I would like to assure you that I don’t think that’s the case. I am on the other side of this equation- My husband was diagnosed with Bi-Polar about five years ago. There have been some very trying periods in our marriage because he struggles with keeping his emotions under control, which as I understand is a large part of a mental illness. Let me tell you there are times that I I have probably made him feel the way you do, I want you to know, it’s not that I don’t want to deal with it but you are right, it is ignorance because how could it be anything but? I am not in his shoes therefore I can only try to understand what he’s going through and sometimes it’s really really hard because of the fact that I don’t know. I have no idea. Please don’t feel like people don’t want to deal with you, they just don’t understand, as they have no way of doing so.
I feel terrible – that little girl should never have been made to feel the way she did and I don’t know how the woman who did it to her can even stand not to choke on her own breath at the thought of what she did.
I also read about this the other day and I was very angered by it. I heard people jumping to defend those involved with the fake myspace account, claiming they did not kill anyone and are somehow protected under the law. I also read how people blamed Megan’s parents for being irresponsible or just neglectful. But the real issue here is that a girl with mental illness was mistreated and is now dead. She killed herself, yes, and some people have little sympathy for suicide victims. However, this girl was a week from her 14th birthday. She is so fragile at such a young age even without such a mental illness. The idea that people would mistreat her and not give her their utmost attention and care is perplexing. I don’t blame Megan for what she did…she couldn’t conceive any other way. Her world had basically tossed her out into the cold when a boy she thought genuinely liked her and was genuinely attracted to her told her she was a slut and not wanted in this life and when her parents did not support her and did not do enough to comfort her. The poor girl had walls crashing down on her and she didn’t know what else to do. It’s all just fucking ridiculous and stupid and awful.
While I’m not 100% up to speed on the role the parents’ played beyond yelling at her or trying to take myspace away, I believe that the people responsible for the fake myspace account should definitely be held responsible somehow. As Matt said, if this isn’t a crime then a precident should be set to discourage this kind of crap in the future. This idea that people can get away with Internet harassment is absurd.
And they absolutely knew she was depressed. There is no way they could not know. And that fact, knowing she was sick while gaining her trust and then ripping her heart out (leading to her suicide) is what should make them be held accountable. There’s no reason for them to get away with what they did. The adults involved should be charged as criminals, but the teenagers too should get some kind of penalty. Letting them walk away with guilt is not enough.
Strangedays3. I think your husband has found a best friend in you then, and he is very lucky. Although that is not the case for all of us. I have lost a few wonderful people in my life because of my struggles with Bi-polar and Depression. I was a force to be wreckoned with for a long time, and it was so hard for them to deal with my never answering the phone or wanting to enjoy this life that somehow they just disappeared from me. You get stuck in this darkness and it just seems so easy to stay there and not fight it. As you know from living with a person with mental illness yourself. Therapy and coping skills are coming a bit easier for me these days but I haven’t had to get where I am without a fight with myself everyday. Just to keep the dark clouds from hovering, such hard work. So easy to give in. I wish this little girl could have seen a better way out. Let’s face it, our teenage years are the most difficult times in our life. It’s no wonder this happens to so many. Such a shame
I’d like to see the details of this story from someone a little more credible than CNN. They’re always looking for a way to create a panic over that god damned Internet the kids keep getting on.
[quote comment=”33716″]Strangedays3. I think your husband has found a best friend in you then, and he is very lucky. Although that is not the case for all of us. I have lost a few wonderful people in my life because of my struggles with Bi-polar and Depression. I was a force to be wreckoned with for a long time, and it was so hard for them to deal with my never answering the phone or wanting to enjoy this life that somehow they just disappeared from me. You get stuck in this darkness and it just seems so easy to stay there and not fight it. As you know from living with a person with mental illness yourself. Therapy and coping skills are coming a bit easier for me these days but I haven’t had to get where I am without a fight with myself everyday. Just to keep the dark clouds from hovering, such hard work. So easy to give in. I wish this little girl could have seen a better way out. Let’s face it, our teenage years are the most difficult times in our life. It’s no wonder this happens to so many. Such a shame[/quote]
I am really sorry you have to live that way. No one deserves that kind of life. You are very strong, I see the work it takes just to have some shred of normalacy. I hope you have people in your life who value you now.
I haven’t read anyone else’s comments so if this has been said already, I apologize for being redundant.
I feel that these social networking sites should not be available to anyone under the age of 18. For a while Facebook had that policy. Only people with a college e-mail account could sign up. Of course there are some 17 and even 16 year olds who go to college, but at least you’re still limiting it to people with the maturity of being in an adult envirnment (I refer to college as an “adult environment” in the loosest sense of the term, but you get my gist) These sites are a breeding ground for pedaphiles and voyours and your basic run-of-the-mill assholes.
Some would say its a parents responsibility to monitor there children’s behavior. Thats like saying movies shouldn’t have rating systems, and porn should be put on the shelf next to Barney.
No parent in this day and age can monitor their child’s activities on-line, when kids can go to school, the library, or a friends house to set up an account anywhere they like on-line and create an alias to avoid being found by their parents.
Myspace/Facebook and any other social site should be held accountable for the crimes and tragedies that accure because of their negligence. Laws should be made to force these sites to implement measures to ensure that children are denied access. Perhaps requiring a credit card number (yes I know its flawed) or state ID number. Or as facebook used to enforce. Requiring a college e-mail.
There’s no perfect solution but there’s always a more perfect solution.
The biggest tragedy of human life? That anyone at all can have children.
Still haven’t had a chance to read all these yet but after I signed off I had a thought… It’s one I always come back to….. This is an era where both parents working is pretty much the norm now.. I grew up in an era where my parents were both working for the first 10 years of my life, then my mom couldn’t work due to depression and not realizing it was thyroid.. however, both my sister nor I were coming home straight after school. We were headed to an ice rink where we figure skated for all our years of school.. nowadays I am not hearing of many kids in extra curicular activities.. When my niece comes over here and goes on MSN, I’m amazed to see how many of her friends are on at all hours… AMAZED… if both parents are working now, isn’t there enough money to get kids in sports or piano, what have you? what is happening to the parents that they aren’t forcing this? I know my niece did not want to follow the tradition of my sister and I and go the figure skating route (she tried it, hated it), but why didn’t we put her in something else? And enforce it…? I will take full responsibility for this one… I think we failed.
Quite sickening. These people are nothing but cowards, doing this stuff online and not saying something about their dislike for a person in the real-world. Sad story and unfortunately stuff like that happens a lot. I agree with one of the above comments about it being a type of fraud and to go along with that, it could almost be considered a mild form of manslaughter if you think about it.
Something needs to be done to protect the kids and any person for that matter, from this type of harassment. With the advances in technology, it surprises me there haven’t been more laws put into effect regarding the internet.
Sorry for the multiple posts. See below.
P. Martini
[quote comment=”33720″]The biggest tragedy of human life? That anyone at all can have children.[/quote]
What about the unqualified privilege to use our oxygen?
P. Martini
It certainly should be a crime and prosecuted. There is absolutely no need or justifiable reason for the intentional degradation of another human being for any purpose.
[quote comment=”33720″]The biggest tragedy of human life? That anyone at all can have children.[/quote]
You are so right. And how many of those children have terrible lives because they can’t be taken care of or the people who brought them in to the world (That they did not ask to be brought in to I might add) hurt them- mentally – physically – emotionally – or don’t even pay attention to them at all. Clearly a touchy subject for me, I can’t stand seeing kids in pain and it’s worse when that pain is caused by someone who has their own kids or likewise is the parent.
The mother’s participation is unquestionably disgusting. It would be nice to see criminal charges prosecuted. We’ll wait and hope.
If it were only the daughter who devised this cruel plan, any civil action by Megan’s family and in her name would have to confront the question of whether it is fair to hold the mother accountable for the daughter’s liability. Here, obviously, the mother will be a defendant, and it won’t be an issue. I would like to see nothing less than her and her daughter’s lives utterly destroyed financially by an enormous judgment against them both. Does anyone have a problem with making an example of the mother? What about the 13-year old daughter?
P. Martini
I call bullshit on the whole “kids are so much more hateful, spiteful etc. than they used to be, blah, blah, blah.” For God sakes kids used to get beaten by their teachers less than forty years ago. The world is no worse now on average than it was 200 years ago. It’s better if anything. There are just more people around to be mean to each other, and there are far, far more ways to know about it.
The stance that kids today are so terrible compared to how Joe Blow was growing up is a high and mighty stance that does no one any good. This like this happened when my parents were children they just happened in a different way, and were probably never talked about. Especially not in National media.
Online social networking protocols won’t make school children any less cruel; they were doing the same shit long before the internet came into fruition. Sure, parents and teachers have a responsibility to show these children why they ought to treat each other as human beings, but how can we expect them to intervene when the purveyors of this hatred present themselves as pristine before them?
In the wilderness, the mentors are powerless: it’s survival of the fittest, and those who possess the looks, charm and knack for aggression perch themselves atop the mountain.
I would like to ask these children – and the parent who was involved – if, after seeing a girl take her own life, they’re now satisfied.
Misinformation, the bullying has become more mental, because of the internet… At least when I got bullied in grade 1, it was kids dumping everything out of my back pack. I can live with that. They never said anything hurtful. They just threw everything I owned out onto the road. I would rather remember that, then someone tell me online that I’m a slut.
**than
I love how Myspace is getting the blame for this when an ADULT participated in this disgusting display that led to a THIRTEEN year old killing herself.
What’s wrong with kids these days? I hope you mean WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ADULTS THESE DAYS?
This mother should most certainly have criminal charges brought against her, and social services should at the very least remove her daughter from the home because clearly this woman is not a competent parent and is endangering her child’s social development.
I need to say this and I’m not being in the least bit facetious; if the older generation wishes for my generation to pay for their fat lazy retired asses, they better fucking learn to act their age.
Ruining the family financially isn’t justice. When I was in the same position, as a surviving victim of violence that took the lives of my immediate family members, monetary compensation for the act was laughable. You see, money doesn’t bring back the dead. I wanted justice. And unfortunately, including in my own life, justice is rarely served.
What would be vindication is charging the mother who aided with this horrible event with stalking a minor. As a role model and an authority figure in her own household, she is ultimately to blame for allowing this to happen and unfold. She should be prosecuted as a predator and the ultimate justice would be in ensuring that she atones for her actions every time she moves and has to register with the local sex offender registry. The messages she sent, the fact that she pretended to be a young boy online, the undeniable fact that she intended to hurt this young girl….that is the very definition of a predator.
To everyone saying Myspace and Facebook should be held accountable for this.
What if all communication between Megan and the boy were done through letters?
On paper?
Would you all be rushing for a ban on trees?
It’s not the medium at fault, it’s the people who communicated through it.
Myspace is just the “medium” they used? Myspace and Facebook aren’t tools like pens and paper used to commit a crime, they are places owned and managed by people that facilitate crimes
They gave that bitch the means to meet, fool, and torment this child. These sites gave her the ability to create a completely different persona and study the girl’s profile to know how to appeal to her and push her to terrible things.
Should these sites be held accountable?
What if there was a coffee house whose managment constantly turned a blind eye while grown men walked off with teenaged girls? Or a dance club whose owner allowed underaged kids in it? You don’t think management would be held accountable for crimes committed there or related to activities that happened there? You don’t think those placed would be attacked by the community, face charges, and possibly be shut down?
Of course they would, and these “social networks” should be held to the same standards and the same accountability.
[quote comment=”33718″][quote comment=”33716″]Strangedays3. I think your husband has found a best friend in you then, and he is very lucky. Although that is not the case for all of us. I have lost a few wonderful people in my life because of my struggles with Bi-polar and Depression. I was a force to be wreckoned with for a long time, and it was so hard for them to deal with my never answering the phone or wanting to enjoy this life that somehow they just disappeared from me. You get stuck in this darkness and it just seems so easy to stay there and not fight it. As you know from living with a person with mental illness yourself. Therapy and coping skills are coming a bit easier for me these days but I haven’t had to get where I am without a fight with myself everyday. Just to keep the dark clouds from hovering, such hard work. So easy to give in. I wish this little girl could have seen a better way out. Let’s face it, our teenage years are the most difficult times in our life. It’s no wonder this happens to so many. Such a shame[/quote]
I am really sorry you have to live that way. No one deserves that kind of life. You are very strong, I see the work it takes just to have some shred of normalacy. I hope you have people in your life who value you now.[/quote]
Well thank you for your concern. The world needs more people like you in it that is for sure. For some reason although the support is there, you still are alone you know. The rational thoughts just seem to be nonexisting. Trying to retrain your way of thinking is next to impossible at times. I am very thankful for the people in my life now and they are always there for me. Now if I could only pick up the phone and ask for the help……sigh. I have yet to find the value of my life but one day it will come looking for me, and I will be here waiting. I really think these posts are very helpful to many people. Being able to discuss issues that hit so close to home. I have recommended this site to a friend who has lost her son to suicide so I hope she will be able to add her input and maybe get some closer in the meantime. Thanks guys for everything this site has become. I am so glad to be a part of something so important. Makes the tears come but warms my heart so nicely:)
That’s just simply horrible. And made worse by the parents involvement. It never ceases to amaze me, humanity’s ability and desire to cause other’s harm.
I don’t have time to read all the comments, because I am currently just taking a break from a term paper, but I skimmed over and a couple caught my eye which focused on blaming the parents for a lack of supervision. This post is just directed at those who think that Megan’s parents are to blame. Begin rant:
I think that some people here are overestimating the amount of control that parents should (or CAN) have over a child’s life by the time they reach 13. I agree, parents shouldn’t allow their children to have full access to whatever sites and tv shows they want. I also think that many parents today are fostering the idea that their children should be acting like adults by giving them cell phones (kids don’t need cell phones), and other small, expensive items to carry around with them (iPods, anyone?). I haven’t seen anything in that story though that implies Megan’s parents were to blame. It’s easy for people to simply say “parents should be monitoring their children,” but I think that those people really underestimate their capabilities. Kids at that age begin keeping things from their parents, plain and simple. Some parents may like to believe that they know everything about their kids, but that just isn’t true. Is this shocking news? It shouldn’t be, because the majority of these secrets are minor things that we all did as kids. It’s extremely unfair to expect parents to know everything that their teenage kids are doing, and anyone who thinks that they’re doing it is either naive or smothering their children. Hell, I know I’ll probably think the same thing when I have kids.
How many guys here used to sneak around and look at pornography behind their parents back when they were young? How many of them think that their sons haven’t done the same thing? And most importantly, how many think that it has somehow perverted them for life? In the span of my adolescence, I did the following things without my parents ever knowing: looked at porn, had sex, tried marijuana (once, and only once), talked to strangers over the internet, was a passenger in a CAR ACCIDENT. Does this make my parents terrible? Hell, no. Mom tried extremely hard to be involved in my life and to monitor everything I did. In fact, her strong attempts only encouraged me more to keep secrets. Have I grown up as some antisocial menace to society? Well, I’m in my third year of university, on the Dean’s List, I haven’t done drugs ever since that first marijuana attempt, and I don’t engage in promiscuous sex. The point of this story? 1) Try as you might, you just can’t know everything about your child. 2) Supposing my mother had began stalking me in order to find out everything that I did, I would have hated her for it. Parents may think that they’re helping their kids by doing that, but really those are just the kids that get made fun of more and end up having more problems when they grow up. 3) To be honest, you probably don’t want to know everything that your teenager is doing. It’s normal, and it’s not the end of the world. Once again, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t have boundaries, but the most important thing is to develop morals as they grow up. Give them curfews and restrict them from watching the adult movies, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that they won’t find tricks to get around certain rules.
I know that my rant may seem like it has gone completely off topic, but it hasn’t. Some people are accusing Megan’s parents of not observing the sites she went to and the people she talked to. I don’t know how many of them have teenage kids, but let me ask them this: how much do you know about the sites your kids visit when you’re in the next room? When you’re gone out? On the computers at school? On the computers at the community center? At their friends’ houses? I didn’t even have a computer at my house until I was 15, got a job, and bought one with my own money. Do you think I had no access to the internet before that?
Some could argue that they have done a better job of monitoring because their child isn’t in the same position as Megan, and that’s just ignorance. Megan’s parents didn’t make that terrible woman say those things to their daughter, just like none of you have any control over the things that other people say to your kids. I just wish everyone would stop using parents as the solve-all scapegoat and realize that the world isn’t that simple. Yes, there ARE terrible parents. There are parents who should have their children taken away immediately. There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING, in Duane’s story that gives anyone the right to automatically jump to the conclusion that Megan’s parents are to blame, and frankly, it somewhat sickens me to think of the poor parents being blamed for this.
As for the topic of the sites themselves, I don’t have time to say nearly as much. I think that the sites should attempt to create methods of fixing the problem, but to be honest, none come immediately to mind that don’t completely restrict the original purpose of the site. Filtering messages that contain the word “slut”? Just wait and see how many teenagers sign up for THAT site. Hateful messages also don’t need to contain a single word that would set off any alarms. We’re so desperate to blame someone that we almost forget about the predators themselves.
If a sexual predator tries to seduce my child with a note written in crayon, I don’t try and figure out a way to hold Crayola responsible…
It is a delicate balance. I have three teenagers, and I have to remind my husband that the youngest, now 13, at her most volatile, is just going through the same turmoil that the other two have already been through. All three had a tough time around that age, and their peers didn’t make it easy. Everytime I read about kids with addiction or depression that led to tragedy and how the parents should have searched their rooms for signs I thought about how their privacy is so important to them.
Just let them know you’re there to support them and be there when they need you, but spying and monitoring at the expense of their privacy goes beyond that line … of course, if I lost my kid to suicide, I would forever blame myself for not going through their things to prevent it … nobody said parenting is easy, and nobody can pretend to know all the right things to do.
Wow… when I was 13 my parents used to worry that instant messaging was too much for me because I’d get upset about things people would say to me, I can’t imagine being that impressionable age and having to deal with social networking sites too.
People are cruel… I can’t imagine how the mother thought this was okay! Wow..
I also have no idea what can be done to prevent this from happening, other than extreme restrictions on for minors on the internet.
I am around the same age group as Megan (a little older), and my mother tells me not to go on those social sites, and to her obedience, I stay off them. To me, social sites serve no purpose, as you add most of your friends you see everyday at school, and you know practically everything about your friends anyways, so why do you need to join a site in which the world can see you, becoming susceptible to things like what happened to Megan?
Teens have been sexually harrased, bullied, and even pedifiles find them and teens still dont learn. I feel much remorse for the family, and Megan will always be remembered, but I think most parents have no idea what their child is doing online, and it needs to be brought to their fullest attention. I dont see why her parents would let her on a site such as this, but that is only under their choice and control. I hope many teens learn from this, and I definately am avoiding sites such as these even more now.
I don’t use Facebook, Myspace or anything like it. Not interested. But then I become more antisocial as I get older and I like to stay under the radar. The internet is an amzing thing and I would have a hard time living without it now, between research and online gaming. When I have kids, there will be some major talks going on before they start using it and they won’t be using it without my supervision until such an age where I see they are mature enough to know what’s going on inside it! It’s up to parents to supervise, not government! The last thing we need is more big brother, censorship and government regulation. Parents need to do their duty by protecting, teaching, molding and looking after their kids.
[quote comment=”33740″]What would be vindication is charging the mother who aided with this horrible event with stalking a minor. As a role model and an authority figure in her own household, she is ultimately to blame for allowing this to happen and unfold. She should be prosecuted as a predator and the ultimate justice would be in ensuring that she atones for her actions every time she moves and has to register with the local sex offender registry. The messages she sent, the fact that she pretended to be a young boy online, the undeniable fact that she intended to hurt this young girl….that is the very definition of a predator.[/quote]
I think that sounds sensible and reasonable. It hadn’t occured to me, but you’re completely right.
Anonymity – people can get away with anything over the net cuz they can be anyone. Yes, I agree – that the mother should be charged; such a malicious act. The internet needs to be more secure – more login passports should be implemented to prevent anonymity; parents won’t always be able to monitor their children and the internet.
Duane I think you should read “Odd Girl Out” by Rachel Simmons. It explains this kind of bullying and gives a great amount of insight as to why it happens and the social dynamics around it. Of course I don’t agree with it but at least now I have a better understanding of it.
I find a great deal of people relate to it as well as myself.
“They gave that bitch the means to meet, fool, and torment this child. These sites gave her the ability to create a completely different persona and study the girl’s profile to know how to appeal to her and push her to terrible things.”
Uhh. Think about what you’re saying.
The site didn’t tell them this girl’s interests, if you were paying attention, the article states that one of the girls was a former friend of Megan’s, they knew her interests already.
A EMAIL would have given the “bitch the means to meet, fool and torment that child.”
So would a PHONE.
I suppose you also think we should hold the government at fault for not passing laws that allow them to monitor every single telephone conversation, because every once in a while a bank robbery gets planned while people are talking on a phone?
I suppose you also think Hotmail should be accountable every time someone sends someone a death threat, too? Fuck, blame Al Gore too! He created the internet! That guilty bastard! Or the company that made the keyboard they used to type the cruel messages? Without them, this wouldn’t have happened!
No. Fuck. No.
All of that bullshit about blaming the sites and everything else does ONE thing. Which is that it diverts a significant portion of the blame away from those who really deserve it, and that is the PEOPLE IN QUESTION who plotted and carried out this act.
I agree with zackmitchell. Blaming Myspace completely diverts the attention from the real people involved.
Zack,
Your phone and e-mail examples are completely irrelevant. If you would have read my argument or understood it. Myspace is not a “medium” it is not a tool like a phone or an e-mail or a piece of paper that a previous commentor mentioned.
E-mail is not social networking service. Its a private account adress that you hand out to communicate with people you know. Myspace is a place you go to advertise yourself and meet people. They are not comparable. One is a tool the other is a place.
Myspace is a place, an insitution, a business that, like every other business, has the responsiblity to protect its customers to the best of its ability. I do have a myspace account and as anyone who has an account can testify it is full of adult material and just plain filth, that children should not be able to access. Sigining on and seeing “sexyskank42” wants to be your friend, is like having a prostitute greet your kid at Wal-Mart.
In the real world there is a diffinitive line drawn separating what is for adults and what is for children, and when that line is crossed business owners who facilitate it are held accountable. An on-line business should not be excused from this responsibility.
Laws are passed stating how old you have to be to enter a bar, strip club, pornstore, etc. There’s no reason a law shouldn’t be made detremining how old you have to be to enter a social networking site that has the content of Myspace.
As far as monitoring goes. No the goverment should not monitor what goes on, on these sites. But the sites themelves should and should enforce protocols that ensure (to best extent possible) that people are who they say they are. Whether that be requiring a driver license, credit card, or social security number.
I linked this in my blog as well. It’s really disturbing what people have the capacity to do to each other. I can’t believe that (in the article I read) the people who did it were granted anonymity. Whatever – they deserve to be villified.
Another smashing example of why some people should never be parents. I think adoption is a great example – before you’re able to become the parent of a child, you must be approved as both a parent and decent human being (if only this worked in ALL cases). If only we had some way of predicting who should never, ever have children – people like this woman.
I think that everyone needs to remember that individuals were on either side of the computer screens. Individuals set out to find a way to hurt this young girl. There are a few points that everyone can agree on in this issue, and some logical leaps we have to make conclusions upon.
*The mother and daughter posing as “Josh” set out to do harm to Megan. This was a calculated and planned attack, given the methods used and time spent fostering it.
*The likelihood that the format of the attack was chosen for anonymity is apparent.
*The format allowed the mother and daughter to develop a persona rather than simply sending hurtful anonymous emails.
*The mother and daughter could have chosen a variety of different means to torment her, but there are few formats that could have supplied the level of personal access to Megan.
Social networking sites allow users to be very cavalier about “friending” people, even going so far as to have an option that indicates that the two users know each other via random “hook-up”. Those options are available to all users. So people who know very little about one another have the same “access” to us that those who spend every day with us do.
A logical jump that can be made is that if the mother and daughter had been unable to contact Megan via the internet sites, they would have attempted to do so via other means. So while the networking sites provided the best access to Megan to accomplish all their goals (to get information and to torment) when utilizing all the tools the sites have (allowing mass broadcasts, public commenting, etc.), their previous actions indicate that they would have turned to other methods.
it can then be concluded that if the mother and daughter were so exacting and dedicated to the torment as to create a persona and communicate with Megan to gather information, they were willing to use any and all options available to them to accomplish this. Including disregarding rules and regulations set out to govern the use of any tool or website.
A variety of paths led to the tragic passing of Megan. There is no doubt that the anonymous nature of the internet played a large part in this all, providing the very format for this all to unfold upon. That websites that allow porn stars to send out spam friend requests should have better tools in place to protect minors, and those safeguards may have made it more difficult to harass Megan. But when it boils right down to it….
There were people pressing the keys on the keyboard. And justice is not served until those people are forced to atone for their actions.
“E-mail is not social networking service.”
I didn’t say it was. What I implied was that if these sites didn’t exist, they still could have made an email account for “Josh”, sent Megan a picture, and corresponded with her over the weeks, only to serve the same result of pulling the rug out from under her eventually.
Myspace is neither a place nor an institution. It is as you say, a business.
As is Hotmail. Both “businesses” provide a medium for communication as their primary product. To hold one to certain standards and not the other is being ignorant.
“Laws are passed stating how old you have to be to enter a bar, strip club, pornstore, etc. There’s no reason a law shouldn’t be made detremining how old you have to be to enter a social networking site that has the content of Myspace.”
She didn’t die because someone showed her porn and gave her alcohol, she died because of someone cruelly manipulating her emotions. Something that could easily have happened if she was in correspondence with ‘Josh’ through email 5 years ago before Myspace.
You may not like it but someone could do the exact same thing with an email account.
So don’t tell me these comparisons are irrelevant.
And what about my extreme keyboard example? Logitech is a business, right?
So should they be held accountable for not having sensors that automatically detect when someone is typing something “mean” or “not nice” online?
No. Obviously not. Do you know WHY?
Because Logitech makes keyboards for…
LOGICAL PEOPLE WHO DON’T TRY TO COERCE PEOPLE TO KILL THEMSELVES.
Therefore, they should not be sued for not including countermeasures to deal with the occasional sociopath who uses one of their products.
Although I think you may be a bit more harsh than necessary to those who disagree with you, I have to say that I agree with Zack on premise that MySpace isn’t to blame for this any more than the internet provider or the company that made their computer.
The unfortunate reality is that some people out there are just assholes. They were assholes before MySpace came along, and they’ll be assholes after it’s gone. This mentality of “blame everyone you can” doesn’t benefit anyone. I would like to know exactly how people think that sites like MySpace are supposed to handle this? Are they merely supposed to ask when you sign up if you’re 18? First of all, there’s no real content on the site that can justify cutting off a large section of users (less users means less money from advertisers for no real reason other than “what if”). Second, the “are you 18?” thing never works. So how do we verify that people are over 18? I’m sure as hell not putting a credit card number into Facebook.
Do we just let anyone use it, but filter messages for dirty words? Kids use dirty words all the time (whether you like it or not) and they won’t use any site that doesn’t let them use the word “slut”. Also, hate messages don’t need swearing of any kind. Should we have someone hired to read every message that anybody sends to anybody? Do you know how unrealistic that is, besides being a terrible intrusion in privacy?
I just want someone to clarify exactly what they think that MySpace should have done to make sure that this didn’t happen, followed by an explanation for why they are more responsible than a) the internet provider, and b) the computer company.
Nothingman:
Twice I’ve explained why Myspace is more responsible than keyboards/lettesr/pens/computer companies and explained what measures could be put in place to keep children off of the sites.
You say there’s no real content that justifies keeping children off of it. I’m sorry to say this, because it has that holier than thou conotation to it but here it is: I have children, and I’m pretty sure you and zack and everyone else who rallies completely to myspaces defense does not, and might even be (legally) children themselves.
Everyday pornstars and prostitutes have the ability to spam everyone on those sites regardless of age or privacy measures, no responsible parent, or adult in general would ever say that that is acceptable content for children to be exposed to.
Let me try to explain my position for a third time.
a.) What should Myspace do to make sure this didn’t happen?
Myspace should have the same protocols as any other other adult-oriented web-site such as dating services and pornsites. And lets face it Myspace is much more like a dating service/porn-site than it is like yahoo or hotmail. So yes, requiring a credit card number as identification is a reasonable, efficient way to limit children from signing up for an account, or at least give parents more of a say in whether their children get an account. Regardless of whether they actually charge the card or simply use it as a prerequisite to make an account, having credit card information gives the site the means to track down people with real names at a real adress so that fraudulent alias’s will no longer give people anonyminity to do and say whatever they please to whoever they want. Also, it seems like a no-brainer for myspace to enact this itself just to avoid the possibility of liability suits like this one.
b. Why is Myspace more responsible than a) the internet provider, and b) the computer company.
First, let me say that ultimate responsibility lies with the person who actually committed the crime. And I’m not just referring to this case, but in general. Any creep, voyeur, or pedaphile who harms children through these sites is the true criminal and should be punished to the full extent of the law and more so.
However, the company that enables these crimes should also be held accountable. Myspace is a place that allows people to advertise themselves for relationships and enables people to meet and learn personal and intimate things about each other. Its a place where men and women can post mauture music, movies, language and advertsie porn and sexual favors. Its a place like a bar, pornstore, or strip club. If the owner of one of those establishments knowing lets children in and does nothing to try to hinder their entrance, they are subject to legal action. If while in the establishment a child is harmed our meets someone that harms them later on somewhere else, that business is still accountable for its negligence for giving these creeps the opportunity to meet children in an adult environment.
Myspace is the place, the business that allows children to enter an adult environment. The internet provider is merely the toll road to get into the town that the business is located in. The computer company is the car manufacturer that buikds you the tool to navigate the streets.
The computer is just a tool, the provider is just a road, but the site is the place designed and run by people who facilitate and enable the crimes to happen by letting children into a place they shouldn’t be, and they have the obligation to keep them out.
“You said there’s no real content that justifies keeping children off of it.”
No I didn’t. I said that to hold Myspace, a neutral organization which provides a communication medium as it’s service, to blame for the ACTIONS of a PERSON, is retarded, and detracts from the importance of focusing on the real problem, which is the disturbing and sociopathic lack of empathy and morals these people have displayed with regards to Megan.
These kids didn’t receive an email from a pornstar that said make “someone kill themselves”. So you can stop all your “adult content” arguments. They may be valid, but they have nothing to do with one girl treating another so poorly that she committed suicide.
“the site is a place designed and run by people who facilitate and enable the crimes to happen by letting children into a place they shouldn’t be”
I’ll agree, but only if you’ll agree that air enables crime because bullets pass through it.
I would argue that if anything, the majority of the users of Myspace are in public and high school. That need for “social acceptance and networking” is much more prevalent in younger ages. I have yet to see a single Myspace account that has anything graphic or overly mature. I have even seen a couple of those “pornstar” Myspace pages, and even those pale in comparison to what a 12 year old would find by typing “Sex” in Google.
And for the record, I’m 22, and I don’t even have a Myspace account, so don’t try and discredit me by implying I’m too young to understand or that my opinion is biased.
Zack, you discredit yourself and display your own immaturity by using the term “retarded” to desrcibe something you dislike, making outlandish comments like comparing air to a business, and commenting on a topic that you admit you’re ignorant about (“I don’t even have a Myspace account”) Also, if you’d take the time to actually read my post and take a moment to process it, you would see that it wasn’t in response to you, but to “Nothingman” and answering his questions.
I know that you’ve twice attempted to explain your point, but neither time have I really seen anything that convinced me.
Your explanations of what MySpace should do are completely unrealistic. I will refer to the two most common methods of verifying age on the internet: 1) simply asking age, which I think we can all agree doesn’t do anything, and b) acquiring a credit card number, which you have said it a good method. The problem is that not all adults have a credit card. I’m in university and lots of my friends have no credit cards. Also, the reason that so many other adults sites require a credit card number is because they’re charging you. Plus, mandatory credit card number would also limit those around the late-teen age group, which is the biggest subscriber to these sites. You could argue that they have no business on these sites, but they have no less business than anyone else. These sites are designed for them, and despite your belief that MySpace is essentially a medium for pedophiles to have access to children, that is actually an astronomically small percentage of what goes on there. The site is mostly used as a means for friends to create profiles, send messages to one another, check out band pages to learn learn about new music, etc. I still argue that there is nothing about MySpace itself that makes it adult themed. Should you start checking for ID’s at your local park because drug dealers occasionally hang out there? I should hope you’ll watch your children when they go there, but that doesn’t suddenly make it an “adult establishment.” If a parent doesn’t want their child on MySpace, then I think that’s their right to decide, and I’m behind them, but they don’t get to decide for everyone’s kid.
I’m sorry if my age (21) or lack of children makes you take me less seriously, but it doesn’t make my arguments any less valid.
As for the site being more responsible than the internet provider, I still think it could be argued that the internet provider should have also implemented child-protection measures. Supposing I did have a child, they could easily go onto my computer and search “boobs” one Google images. Hell, they could find things on the internet infinitely worse than MySpace. Couldn’t I then argue that my service provider doesn’t have any measures to prevent my child from seeing these sites? If my child has no business being on social websites, do they even have any business being on the Internet at all? It is, after all, far more of an “adult environment” than specific sites like MySpace.
But anyway, I have a term paper to get back to.
My main point: Saying that they SHOULD have measures in place is not the same thing as suggesting realistic possibilities (also, I’ve never seen a dating site that did more than simply ask if you’re at least 18). Implementing a mandatory credit card system will be suicide for their site. People will just move onto sites that don’t require credit cards (and the predators will follow). It’s easy to say that everyone should be doing everything in their power to prevent harm from coming to everyone else, but it’s unrealistic.
ps. I hope that my arguments aren’t coming off as more hostile than I intend them to. I do respect your opinion even though I disagree, and my term paper stress may be leaking over into this debate.
oops
[quote comment=”33905″]
As for the site being more responsible than the internet provider, I still think it could be argued that the internet provider should have also implemented child-protection measures. Supposing I did have a child, they could easily go onto my computer and search “boobs” one Google images. Hell, they could find things on the internet infinitely worse than MySpace. Couldn’t I then argue that my service provider doesn’t have any measures to prevent my child from seeing these sites? If my child has no business being on social websites, do they even have any business being on the Internet at all? It is, after all, far more of an “adult environment” than specific sites like MySpace.
Don’t want to get to involved in all this, but just a little fact. Google has a feature called safe search filtering, in which you can restrict sites or images with explicit text or images. So they are in fact taking the steps that allow parents to keep these things away from young children
when I was in high school, some guys created a website that had many different topics and you could not only vote, but post stories and rumours about people. A ton of students started attacking this one guy, going on about how he was gay and just random revolting things that high school people can say. This student found the website, brought it to the principals attention, AND brought the police into it. I don’t remember how many kids got suspended, but I don’t think anyone was formally charged harassment.
But Megan, i think the mother of the other child should be charged with harassment of some sort. From what we are aware, the only reason why Megan would have done this was because of these messages. Should sick people like this actually be able to get away with causing this much of an emotional disturbance to a child? There’s so much publicity about bullying in school and on the internet, but the fact is is that nothing is really being done about it. People need to smarten up and learn how to protect these children.
Cyber-bullying is a very real and horrible form of harassment. The sad reality is that many countries/states/provinces/territories/soonandsoforth don’t have laws that govern cyber-bullying. This is why, a year after Megan died, no charges have been laid (but to the credit of the law enforcement there, they have left the case open until such time they can).
It is worthwhile to note that Megan’s parents are trying to accomplish two things. The first is putting legislation in place to govern cyber-bullying. The second is to encourage and improve safety online for children.
The greatest thing we can all do for Megan, and the children before her, is to call up our local legislators and enquire about cyber-bullying laws. And if they don’t exist…ask why the hell they don’t and have them point you in the direction of the people who are working on it (because there always are).
And people like Lori Drew can be forced to stand up in a court of law and explain why she doesn’t feel “as guilty” about the death of Megan.
“Don’t want to get to involved in all this, but just a little fact. Google has a feature called safe search filtering, in which you can restrict sites or images with explicit text or images. So they are in fact taking the steps that allow parents to keep these things away from young children.”
Very true. Very valid. But the safe search is turned off with one click, without age verification.
My air/myspace comparison was intentionally extreme and absurd to highlight the inherent absurdity of BOTH arguments. And just because I don’t HAVE an account doesn’t mean I know nothing about Myspace. There’s a fucking difference.
Have I looked into getting a Myspace account at one point? Yes.
Have I been to a Myspace page? Yes.
Have I found new music through Myspace? Yes.
Do I have many friends with Myspaces? Yes.
Have I seen the ads on Myspace? Yes.
I don’t own a gun either, does that mean I’m ignorant on the subject of whether it’s OK to shoot people? Hmm? By your logic, apparently I am.
And for the record, when a person starts attacking someones argument based on the WORDS they’re using to depict it, you can tell that that person is running out of FACTS to back up their arguments.
[quote comment=”33921″]And people like Lori Drew can be forced to stand up in a court of law and explain why she doesn’t feel “as guilty” about the death of Megan.[/quote]
Holy shit, that’s terrible! I can’t believe she said that!
Paraphrasing her logic:
“It’s okay, I didn’t do anything wrong. She tried to kill herself once before.”
I am a little late posting my feelings from this post a few days ago… I am a mother of a 15 year old boy with depression, anxiety and OCD. I also have a 10 year of daughter with Autism. Very struggling at times but very rewarding as well. Now I first must state that regardless to the fact that my children both have mental illness, I am aware the problem or possibility could happen to any child – even those that are typical.
The internet can be a wonderful place to connect to new friends and old ones. But also a place to confide your most deepest feelings. A place to express yourself without the fear of “personal intimidation”. Most teens use the internet as an outlet of expression these days. They express their feelings, emotions and personal secrets in what they feel is a safe environment.
My son writes a lot of stuff on his blogs (nexopia) that he would normally not discuss in person because of his anxiety issues. Unfortunately just as the real world or social situations and peer groups or clicks have bullies – so does the internet. I feel that it can be even worse because everyone knows your “business” online. We put it out there for all to see. But then don’t we want our children to be able to express themselves… It is so hard to put boundaries on freedom of expression. In any event my opinion is that Bullies are bullies whatever way you look at it. And those who bully should be held accountable for their actions.
This young girl may have had a mental illness to begin with – but there is no excuse for the actions any child or adult plays in willfully and with intention hurting her more and more until she could not cope any longer on her own.
Children can be cruel – but look who’s teaching them to do so.
This saddens me so much… This is where it all begins… How do we make a difference? How do we teach our children to be less selfish and more caring? How do we make sure our children make the right choices? If only the penalty could be to walk a mile in that persons shoes ~ to teach empathy ~ to teach understanding! If we could only feel for a moment what someone else feels we all might understand a little more!
Thanks Matt for posting this article. Tonight I am going to sit down with my kids and tell them how much I love them for just who they are!
Sorry Daune, thanks for posting this article! LOL!
I felt sick when I read it too, Nothingman. She’s clearly shouldering responsibility for her actions.
/sarcasm
I just have to say that zackmitchell has it right. I am always impressed with his responses no matter the topic. This topic is no exception. Myspace, Facebook,etc are not to blame. It’s the people who chose to hide behind those mediums and push a young girl over the edge that are to blame.
And being young and childless doesn’t make you any less qualified to offer an opinion. I never would have gueesed based on all his posts that zackmitchell is only 22. I think he comes acrocss as extremely mature and well informed.
Thank you for those words of support friday, that means a lot to me.
I have just one final thing to add. I’m not saying Myspace/Facebook/Hotmail/Gmail etc. SHOULD NOT impose code that detects words like Ni**er and Slut, particularly in emails for and from young people.
I’m just saying that they are not obligated to, and should not be held at fault for not doing so when someone abuses their neutral service to commit an atrocious act.
[quote comment=”34017″]I felt sick when I read it too, Nothingman. She’s clearly shouldering responsibility for her actions.
/sarcasm[/quote]
Although I know I’m pushing it a bit, that’s similar to saying at a murder trial:
“It’s okay, your Honour, I found out at the funeral that someone attempted to kill the victim once before, so technically I didn’t do anything wrong.”
Also, good points Kara (I apologize altering your name, but it kept turning into a link when I put those @’s in there, which annoyed me). I know it’s natural after an event like this for everyone to focus on the evils of the internet, and it’s easy to forget how many great sites there are to help kids. Although there’s a lot of stigma to meeting strangers over the internet, sometimes kids who feel like they don’t belong in their peer groups can find sites that let them communicate with similar kids that have something in common. There are obviously risks involved in things like this, but it can be very beneficial.
[quote comment=”34028″]Thank you for those words of support friday, that means a lot to me.
You’re very welcome. I thank you for always having such insightful comments. You always seem to say exactly what I’m thinking.
ps ~ I checked out your flickr page awhile back. I love photography and your pics were beautiful.
Nothingman – Thanks… Ok to alter my name – It is my name, and the only reason I added the @ was because someone else already has Kara as a user name.
I think it’s great to hear all sides of this debate. Although it frustrates me to no end, knowing it is way too late for this girl. That is the hardest part for me. She was so unstable that all it took was something such as this to render herself worthless. So sad and I could never understand or forgive a mother for doing this, ever. The bottem line is the girl was hurting from the start, and where was her support? I am so angry and yet all I want to do is cry for the loss of this little girl who could have very well been myself or someone close to me. Please do all you can to help make this sort of thing, a matter of the past. Pay attention to those who need it and don’t ever let them feel death is an option. It is your duty as a loved one and human being. Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. I have been following this one really close and can’t wait Duane for that next story you are working on regarding suicide. Another touchy topic for me.